doing better today

[mellowtigger]

The 2nd vaccine dose was definitely worse than the first, in my case. As the problems kept growing, I kept reminding myself that an actual infection would have been all of this and worse.

I think maybe a table showing the progression of time would be the best presentation.

Time	Hours	Symptoms
8:20am	0	No immediate reaction after getting the 2nd dose of the Pfizer mrna vaccine.
3pm	7	Bicep is sore again, like last time.
6pm	10	Neck starts to feel sore.
8pm	12	There's a narrow band of "tingling" when I breathe, about the width of a finger, all the way across my chest, about 2 finger widths below my collar bone.  I search the web for symptoms.  I find only a mention of allergic reaction, but I don't see any rash on the surface.  It feels deeper than that.  I start to pee frequently, so I start drinking water to compensate.
10pm	14	38.3C/100.9F temp.  Full body shivers as my temp continues to climb.  I walk doing the "old man shuffle", with joint aches from knees to neck.
12:30am	16	39.2C/102.6F temp.  Shivers finally end, as long as I stay under a blanket to keep warm.  It still feels like the flu.  Headache.
5:45am	21	38.8C/101.7F temp.  It still feels like the flu.
8pm	36	37.9C/100.2F temp.  The whole day was like this.  My body still aches like flu, but less than last night.  I can walk normally, at least.  Outdoor sunlight made my eyes hurt.
8am	48	I feel close to normal.  Spine and neck still a bit sore.  Headache is barely noticeable.

My cat, Hope, stayed close the whole time with body-to-body contact whether I was in the chair (watching tv) or in the bed.  I worried about her reaction.  Since my body was using up those mrna instructions to create virus "spikes", I assumed that I was exhaling spikes too.  I know cats can contract the whole sars-cov-2 virus, but I didn't notice any health reaction in my cat to being around me this whole time.  She doesn't act like she's been exposed to anything that would trigger her immune system.

Still, though, I wonder if it's possible for anyone (cat or human) to acquire a tiny bit of resistance to covid19 just by being in close proximity to a person undergoing mrna vaccination.  Since (for a short duration only) our bodies are producing actual spike proteins of the original virus, maybe we're exhaling a small amount of spikes that someone else could inhale for exposure (very briefly, because those spikes can't replicate) to train their antibodies against it.

This is how my body reacts just to a limited amount of sars-cov-2 spikes.  It would've been all this and worse, if I had acquired the actual coronavirus infection.  Some people get covid19 without showing any symptoms.  Clearly, I would not be like them.

Comments

[zipperbear]

It seems unlikely that spike proteins would be exhaled in any significant quantity. The mRNA induces production of protein spikes in the muscle cells, and the cells then rupture, releasing spikes into the bloodstream, where the ones that don't attach to receptors are cleaned up by the innate immune system, I think, rather than the mechanisms for antibody recognition. But the loose spikes don't have a payload mechanism to enter new cells. Coronaviruses replicate along the respiratory tract, so they can be exhaled in surface droplets (especially when they induce coughing or sneezing). Raw spikes have no way to concentrate themselves in the surface fluids, and those surfaces also have receptors to suck up any loose spikes.

The vaccines induce a huge amount of spikes, however. Part of the reaction is the immune response, like fever, and soreness where co-opted cells are being attacked (mostly near the injection site, but also anywhere else that the vaccine was absorbed), and part of it is the metabolic effort to make all the spike proteins and then clean them up.

I think cats are attracted to warmth, and they're curious about unusual behavior.

[mellowtigger]

Ah, so the mrna vaccine "infects" cells primarily near the injection site? I knew these mrna vaccines were fragile, but I didn't realize they were that fragile. I'm a bit disappointed to learn that a spike cloud is unlikely. :(

[zipperbear]

The vaccine is injected into muscle to focus the effect in a tissue that's relatively expendable. Muscles naturally atrophy and regrow in response to idleness and exercise, so the biceps is a good choice as a big target. Heart cells, etc., or even leg muscles, would be problematic.

Also, the vaccine dose tries to induce a very strong immune response. The actual Covid response might be very dose-dependent; if you inhale a big cloud of droplets deep into the lungs (like choral practice or Broadway rehearsal), the infection might get a head start, and replicate quickly in a dangerous location, causing blood-pressure problems in the lungs resulting in pneumonia before the immune system starts responding. Conversely, a mild exposure in the nasal tissues or the mouth, where the immune defenses are particularly aimed, might cause a minor infection with few symptoms (even if it spreads quickly to other people). So, your symptoms mean that the vaccine is working, but may not mean that you'd get a serious infection.

Conversely, my husband had "Lisinopril cough":
https://www.verywellhealth.com/lisinopril-causes-cough-1124151
-- He's in the 35% of people with the coughing side effect of an ACE-inhibitor blood-pressure drug, and that fraction is suspiciously similar to the split in Covid-19 cases (asymptomatic, mild, serious/fatal), but I don't know if that means he'd be a super-spreader or what. Since the spikes attach to the ACE-2 receptor, some correlation seems likely. Recent studies say no correlation for people currently taking the drug, but I haven't seen studies of selection bias against those who stopped taking the drug because of significant side effects:
https://www.tctmd.com/news/ace-inhibitors-arbs-still-no-link-covid-19-risks-new-analyses-show
(Dec 21, 2020)

Have I mentioned how tedious I find biochemistry? I stopped subscribing to Scientific American back in the late 1980's when too many of the articles were nothing but biochem and immunology, which had little interest for me at the time. Now, at least, epidemiology and applied biotech have some social impact.

[mellowtigger]

The details of these science journal articles are well beyond my expertise, so I rely on the news media summaries much of the time, unfortunately. One article that did cross my feeds this morning, though, suggests that the spikes may be doing harm just by plugging up the ACE2 receptors, even without any virus payload. We'll certainly be learning more about human biology due to this particular epidemic (like with HIV before it) in the years to come.

https://scitechdaily.com/covid-19-is-a-vascular-disease-coronavirus-spike-protein-attacks-vascular-system-on-a-cellular-level/

[zipperbear]

And now spike shedding has been politicized as a right-wing anti-vax talking point that needs debunking. At this point, I think there are too many MAGA morons, not enough smallpox blankets this millennium -- and a resurgence of polio might help, too, since Covid just isn't fatal enough for the shallow end of the gene pool.
https://www.politifact.com/article/2021/may/06/debunking-anti-vaccine-hoax-about-vaccine-shedding/

[mellowtigger]

Ugh. I hadn't heard of that yet. All of this feels like just another manifestation of Republican tactics of projection. Whatever bad thing they do, they create a distracting emotional controversy instead to "own the libs", no matter how irrational and counter-productive it is. :(

[geowench]

The 2nd dose had taken down everyone that I know who got it, including me.
ps your werelynx ears are impressive! i did not know ears could do that.