Cassandra Phenomenon
2009-Jun-28, Sunday 06:19 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
mellowtiggerIt's not bigotry if it's true.
I learned Friday morning about a new term. It's a term that apparently has some autistic self-advocates in quite an impressive twist. Some are rather shrill in calling it a sham and a bogus disorder, while others are more cautious and simply call it counterproductive to call attention to this disorder because it further victimizes the autistic individual.
I strongly disagree on both counts.
I decided 12 years ago to stop dating. I made that decision for several reasons, certainly, but one of those reasons was because I knew that I was harming (unintentionally) the ones that I wanted to care about. I insisted to myself that the trend must stop. My last boyfriend was good enough at one point to write down the way he felt and why, then he disappeared for a week to visit his family in south Texas to escape his pain with me for a while. The list of things that I don't notice is long, and the pain it causes goes deep. It's not just my overactive imagination making that claim. I still have his letter that I use to remind myself when necessary. I decided to stop dating, and for 12 years I've kept this agreement with myself. I figure that the level of unhappiness in the world is reduced just a little bit because I've kept my promise. I haven't inflicted myself upon another human being since then.
I decided 6 years ago to stop having sex altogether. It wasn't until my diagnosis (in early 2003) with Asperger's Syndrome that I made that decision. Sex in a relationship ends up bad for the other person, but sex out of a relationship ends up bad for me. I put the kibosh on both options at that point.
I made huge changes to my life. I underlined those two sentences to underscore that fact. I made those changes, and I have stuck with them. I did it long before I knew anything about this "sham" and "bogus disorder" of Cassandra Affective Deprivation Disorder. I saw what was happening to those I dated and used the only method I could think of to limit my negative impact in the world. I have avoided coupledom, and I have avoided the obvious activity that would lead me to hope of spending my years with someone special. It's really not just some overly pessimistic negativity of mine that is showing.
So I hope that people stop talking about charges of unprofessional or unethical conduct from psychologists who use this term as they try to treat people for these specific problems. I deeply hope that they find a way to eliminate the harm of such "mixed relationships" without using the drastic measures that I relied upon to solve the issue in my life.
I feel better prepared now for a relationship than I ever did in the past. Still, though, I am certain that I would never allow myself to start a new relationship until the other man (burden of proof upon him, unfair though it is) convinces me that he will come to no harm because of it. That he knows we'll have to use other ways showing our appreciation, rely on different methods of communicating our needs, and abide by different rules for how we conduct our relationship. I learned a few smart tricks on my own in my 20s while I tried to date. (I'm a smart monkey on some days.) I've learned more smart tricks since my diagnosis.
Still, though, my hippocratic oath applies: Above all, do no harm.
I learned Friday morning about a new term. It's a term that apparently has some autistic self-advocates in quite an impressive twist. Some are rather shrill in calling it a sham and a bogus disorder, while others are more cautious and simply call it counterproductive to call attention to this disorder because it further victimizes the autistic individual.
I strongly disagree on both counts.
I decided 12 years ago to stop dating. I made that decision for several reasons, certainly, but one of those reasons was because I knew that I was harming (unintentionally) the ones that I wanted to care about. I insisted to myself that the trend must stop. My last boyfriend was good enough at one point to write down the way he felt and why, then he disappeared for a week to visit his family in south Texas to escape his pain with me for a while. The list of things that I don't notice is long, and the pain it causes goes deep. It's not just my overactive imagination making that claim. I still have his letter that I use to remind myself when necessary. I decided to stop dating, and for 12 years I've kept this agreement with myself. I figure that the level of unhappiness in the world is reduced just a little bit because I've kept my promise. I haven't inflicted myself upon another human being since then.
I decided 6 years ago to stop having sex altogether. It wasn't until my diagnosis (in early 2003) with Asperger's Syndrome that I made that decision. Sex in a relationship ends up bad for the other person, but sex out of a relationship ends up bad for me. I put the kibosh on both options at that point.
I made huge changes to my life. I underlined those two sentences to underscore that fact. I made those changes, and I have stuck with them. I did it long before I knew anything about this "sham" and "bogus disorder" of Cassandra Affective Deprivation Disorder. I saw what was happening to those I dated and used the only method I could think of to limit my negative impact in the world. I have avoided coupledom, and I have avoided the obvious activity that would lead me to hope of spending my years with someone special. It's really not just some overly pessimistic negativity of mine that is showing.
"For the first time, the forthcoming DSM-V may include a category of Relational Disorder. According to Michael First M.D. of the DSM-V research committee, the locus of a relational disorder, in contrast to individual disorders, is on the relationship "juncture" between two or more people rather than on any one individual in the relationship. ... Previous terms proposed for this dynamic were Cassandra Phenomenon (Rodman, 2003)... These terms have referred to the experience of non-Asperger's individuals in a relationship with someone with Asperger's Syndrome (AS), many of whom showed disturbing physical and psychological reactions to the lack of emotional reciprocity in their relationships..."In other words, I'm not just imagining it. It's real enough to maybe get its own name in a brand new category within the DSM. It's not just a difference of male/female socialization either, since I am homosexual and have only dated men. It really is an autistic/non-autistic phenomenon. The authors go on to say that naming the condition will help draw attention to the awareness, training, and compromises that really can solve the problem. They point out that while the autistic person may have trouble with all of their relationships, it's likely that the neurotypical (the dreaded "normal" word) has never experienced the same set of problems in their prior relationships until they finally met their autistic partner.
- http://www.maxineaston.co.uk/cassandra/Affective%20Deprivation.pdf
So I hope that people stop talking about charges of unprofessional or unethical conduct from psychologists who use this term as they try to treat people for these specific problems. I deeply hope that they find a way to eliminate the harm of such "mixed relationships" without using the drastic measures that I relied upon to solve the issue in my life.
I feel better prepared now for a relationship than I ever did in the past. Still, though, I am certain that I would never allow myself to start a new relationship until the other man (burden of proof upon him, unfair though it is) convinces me that he will come to no harm because of it. That he knows we'll have to use other ways showing our appreciation, rely on different methods of communicating our needs, and abide by different rules for how we conduct our relationship. I learned a few smart tricks on my own in my 20s while I tried to date. (I'm a smart monkey on some days.) I've learned more smart tricks since my diagnosis.
Still, though, my hippocratic oath applies: Above all, do no harm.
no subject
Date: 2009-Jun-29, Monday 12:26 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-Jun-29, Monday 12:50 am (UTC)I saw on Thursday at the support group meeting that there was a flyer for a "partner of someone with autism" group. I thought it was AuSM that hosted the event, but I can't find it at their website now. Must've been some other group. I hope stuff like that really helps.
The authors I quoted above also mention that it goes both ways, so to speak. It's not just the autistic's "fault". I know that whenever I tried really hard to do something that was difficult for me so that I could impress my boyfriend... none of them ever said or did anything that acknowledged their understanding of its importance. The blindness for what is considered noteworthy can happen on both ends. There really does need to be a 3rd way, a middle ground, that blends both worldviews.
no subject
Date: 2009-Jun-29, Monday 02:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-Jun-29, Monday 06:54 pm (UTC)i really believe there's someone for everyone (and if i'm wrong i won't know until it's too late anyway so...)
but still i don't think you should give up hope for a relationship even if your hopes are continuously crushed. like intentionally cutting yourself out of dating as a rule you follow and for 12 years...i never dated you but i think the harm you might be causing others is something they can handle. think of all the totally crazy people out there dating and causing all kinds of drama, i don't see you causing anywhere near that kind of trouble. plus, maybe some people can take it, or it's worth the cost. i don't know, just don't cut yourself off from the world. i'm just saying pain is kind of part of life and you just have to put up with it to get the good stuff as well.
also i would like to hang out with you maybe at bear coffee some night, after the crazy convergence weekend is over. :)
no subject
Date: 2009-Jun-30, Tuesday 12:25 am (UTC)I'm almost always out at Coffee on Wednesdays. Some weeks I have to bring the pager from work, but it's been a very long time since I needed to leave to deal with any issues. Look for us in the backyard after you get your drink and food. :)
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Date: 2009-Jun-29, Monday 12:48 am (UTC)I don't know if I'm making sense, but I'm with the person above. I hope you find someone who is kind and understanding and right for you because it's kind of sad to me for you to feel that way about yourself....
I hope I'm not insulting you, but perhaps it would be helpful if you talked to a counselor about this.
Even two NT people would have a lot of trouble in a relationship and not just because of that mars and venus thing, but because it's hard being with another person, but I hope one day you can feel a bit wholer. I'm not sure if I agree with this Cassandra Phenomenon concept...Anyone would need a relationship with compassion, understanding and communication, but it does start with loving yourself first.
Now if I can work on the same thing and get into a relationship one day. Have a good night and I hope I didn't make you feel bad or something.
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Date: 2009-Jun-29, Monday 01:15 am (UTC)I think a useful metaphor here is dance. When two people are learning to dance, each may step on the other's toes and hurt them a little. The hurting lessens as they become more skillful at the dance. With some people, though, the stepping is more like stomping. It's more pain than the partner should ever be asked to endure. Sometimes it might be better for a massive klutz to bow out, stand along the wall alone, and just watch the other people dance.
I hadn't thought about counseling because I had already chosen my solution. It is a solution that works, after all, for its intended purpose. As I learn more, though, and think about the possibility of relationship... then I suppose counseling becomes more of a useful tool to consider.
no subject
Date: 2009-Jun-29, Monday 01:17 am (UTC)It's still hard for me because I don't totally like being social too, but I do want a boyfriend eventually, or perhaps even a girl friend.
As relationships sound appealing and kind of scary at the same time.
no subject
Date: 2009-Jun-29, Monday 12:49 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-Jun-29, Monday 01:18 am (UTC)I do stray and sometimes daydream about possibilities. But I eventually snap out of it. :)
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Date: 2009-Jun-29, Monday 01:36 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-Jun-29, Monday 01:53 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-Jun-29, Monday 02:15 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-Jun-29, Monday 01:50 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-Jun-29, Monday 02:20 am (UTC)*whistle nonchalantly*
;)
But, yeah, knowledge is a good thing. Application of it can hopefully benefit a lot of relationships out there in the world.
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Date: 2009-Jun-29, Monday 02:35 am (UTC)hug?
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Date: 2009-Jun-29, Monday 02:46 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-Jun-30, Tuesday 12:32 am (UTC)Let's call a spade a spade.
Date: 2009-Jun-29, Monday 03:53 am (UTC)I doubt very much that there was ever any chance of it being added to the DSM-V, and I wouldn't much care if it was. Is there a reputable source (you're quoting Maxine Aston's personal website) that says that?
Re: Let's call a spade a spade.
Date: 2009-Jun-29, Monday 12:35 pm (UTC)If 2003 was the first attempt at naming a new category of human behavior, then I'm not surprised that there is no peer-reviewed study completed yet. I hope that several such studies will be done in the future. I expect that "confirmation by anecdotal evidence" (my own life story) will contribute to the sense of urgency for producing such studies.
Self-interest is a good reason to be skeptical of anyone's claims. People can help protect themselves from snake oil salesmen by getting a second opinion elsewhere. Lack of documentation, however, is no logical disproof. By the same argument, there was a time when aspirin was an absurd impossibility because there was no supporting studies, just a bunch of "savages" making tea by boiling willow tree bark in water. Anecdotal stories are a sufficient reason to be curious. That's why I provided such detail on my own life story. I reached my conclusion about the reality of Cassandra Phenomenon back in 1997. Maxine Aston is slow to join me. My own story does not stand alone. Over the years since my diagnosis, I have encountered similar threads of conversation from wives who stated how shell shocked they felt, considering themselves emotionally battered even though it was never intentional. They got the same dismissive reaction in those threads that "Cassandra Phenomenon" does now. (Making the name an even more accurate choice of terminology, of course.)
It's shrill to dismiss it because it claims even before hard data is produced that there can be no such hard data that supports the view, while simultaneously making ad hominem attacks on the person instead of the claim. It is entirely possible that Maxine Aston is an unethical "ambulance chaser" taking advantage of despairing divorcees... and yet these divorcees really are damaged by a process unlike those encountered in other relationships.
I support the terminology because it matches precisely with my own life experience. I have no stake in seeing the terminology used. Quite the opposite, I gave up a lot because of my belief in its accuracy.
no subject
Date: 2009-Jun-29, Monday 11:59 am (UTC)My immediate reaction to the little I read about the is why not have an Alcoholic Affective Deprivation Disorder? For years AA and Alanon have said that alcoholism is a family disease. I know in my experience my kids suffered much more from my alcoholism than they did from my Aspergers. How do I know? I was told by them later on and was aware of the improvement in our relationships. I was available to them, loving and better able to meet there needs both emotional and physical, when I stopped drinking. My children began to function in a healthy manner outside the home as well as with me after I got sober. I was sober 9 years before I got diagnosed.
I hope I haven't said anything insulting to you...just voicing my opinion.
By the way I think I've seen you at the 19 Bar...I used to play pool there quite often. I no longer live in Minnesota...actually I move to Israel in Nov.
no subject
Date: 2009-Jun-29, Monday 12:43 pm (UTC)I've heard that phrase before, about alcoholism being a family disease. I think there is some truth to it, and I wouldn't be surprised if opening up a new category of relational disorders would allow for it to be a formally recognized state of behavior.
It took a written letter of desperation to get me to realize the harm I was doing in the last case that I wrote about. For others, I could either see the change in their behavior, deduce it from stories about how other relationships worked (or are supposed to work), or guess based on confusing (to me) things that they said. In any case, the ideal solution seemed to be to think up a way of acting that I just knew I wasn't able to think up. So the alternative became disengagement instead. Which I've kept up with for 12 years. With additional knowledge now, of course, it remains possible that a 3rd alternative may present itself.
I had a really good impression of the 19 Bar on my first visit there. They had the music down very low, lights up to see everything, fans blowing to suck out the bad smoke, and interesting conversations (politics, religion, etc.) going on all around. So I keep going back, even though subsequent visits aren't quite as impressive as that first one. Still, always a better experience than going elsewhere for a beer. :)
no subject
Date: 2009-Jun-29, Monday 01:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-Jun-29, Monday 09:02 pm (UTC)Instead, if one of us (either way seemed to work just as well) is holding the other snugly (both of us facing the same direction) in his arms then I can maintain concentration. For somebody else, I suppose such behavior would be interpreted as aggressive/controlling, but for me it seemed more like an assurance that whatever was being discussed could never "spill out of control". The gesture meant, to me, that our relationship was still "locked in" and so a difficult topic could still be broached safely. It's possible to discuss anything, apparently, in a hug machine. *laugh*
One good trick that I learned from listening to a presentation by a mixed couple is a nifty method they used for negotiating chores or other tasks. The requester would rate (1 to 10) how badly they wanted something done, and the partner would rate (1 to 10) how badly they wanted to avoid it. Whoever got the higher number would win that time. It didn't require explaining WHY a task warranted a certain score at that particular moment, but it was just a quick way of getting the negotiation completed. Very efficient. I like it. I think it would be cool to give it a try. :)
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Date: 2009-Jun-29, Monday 10:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-Jun-30, Tuesday 12:07 am (UTC)Those are the only 3 cases I've known about in recent years. I've never heard them if they discussed their relationships. Today, though, a Livejournal person has showed up who says that she and her male partner are both on the spectrum. I guess that makes 4 cases in 6 years. Not very common, apparently.
no subject
Date: 2009-Jul-09, Thursday 01:25 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-Jun-29, Monday 11:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-Jun-29, Monday 01:47 pm (UTC)Of course, this could all just be in my head.
___
*typo, but I'll keep it.
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Date: 2009-Jun-29, Monday 09:42 pm (UTC)Deaf communication, though, is like that for just about any topic. Very graphic signs for some ideas. And with whole-body participation to amplify the effect, it gets a little intense for the viewer. :)
One question that comes up in the Cassandra debate that I really like is "What about cross-cultural and cross-language relationships?" Are there difficulties and strategies unique to their situation too? I would guess the answer is "yes", although I suspect the details are still different from those between autistic/neurotypical couples.
no subject
Date: 2009-Jul-09, Thursday 01:26 pm (UTC)